Curse

moriz · Aug 30, 2007, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Intro
judging by part I of this guide, i feel i should take a different focus for part II. hopefully this will be a bit more organized and coherent. part II of my guide will delve into some of the finer details of AB. for the most part, ABs run on random pugs. yes, there are highly coordinated groups running around as well, but they are few and far in between. for the vast majority of players, AB is nothing more than RA x10 with specific objectives. as such, the rest of this guide will teach how to play properly and effectively in such an environment. for those who do play in organized teams, you might still gleam a few helpful tips.

The golden rules
here i'm going to outline a few effective mindsets that will help players perform better in AB. remember that these tips are for the pug majority.

#1: "don't ever depend on your teammates"
as one of the twelve random players in AB, your job is to perform at the best of your abilities. why? because this is the only thing you can truly control. you can't control other allied parties with just team chat, and your own group probably won't listen to you very carefully as well. so here's the first and most important rule of AB: "don't ever depend on your teammates." take the initiative and do everything by yourself. if your party follows you, great. if not, then ignore them and do your own thing. since you cannot control the actions and skill-level of your teammates, it is best to assuming they are all blithering idiots and treat them that way. when in doubt, always prepare for the worst (in this case, assuming all your teammates have an IQ of 2).

#2: "never fight a losing battle"
when fighting any resistance, always use whoever you're with as meatshields. let them take the blunt of enemy offense. if they survive and kill a few, great. if they die, then either mop up the surviving enemies or run like hell. of course, chip in on the fighting, kill/disable the key targets, but never expose yourself to a lot of danger. when in doubt, just run away and do something more productive. this leads to the second rule: "never fight a losing battle." AB maps are big. there are always battles somewhere on the map that you can win, so there's no point fighting losing ones.

#3: "fight decisively, or get the hell out"
when you do decide to fight, fight decisively. identify and kill/disable the most important target first. try to keep if you find you can't kill/disable that key target, then turn tail and run. either the target is too skilled, in which case you better run because he's gonna kill you, or the target is a tank, in which case they can be ignored. this is the third rule: "fight decisively, or get the hell out." you'll want to get any skirmish you find over with as quickly as possible.

#4: "when approaching a mob, always approach from the rear"
mobs are common occurences in AB. the mobbers often don't even consciously mob up. often a mob forms simply because a whole bunch of people from multiple groups all decide to run in the same way, and are too stubborn to seperate from the pack, or multiple groups all happens to converge on a single shrine. as such, always prepare to deal with the sudden appearance of a mob. from my personal experiences, i present the fourth rule: "when approaching a mob, always approach from the rear". why? because mobs are the weakest at the rear. that's where the stragglers are, ones who are the slowest and weakest. as such, they are more easily picked off. also, it takes time for a mob to turn around and deal with a threat from behind, as most of its damage dealers are in the front or center, leaving you more time to kill/snare/disable. a couple of players attacking from the rear can weaken and slow down the mob sufficiently to break it up.

those are the four golden rules of AB. follow them above all others, even above capping shrines. after all, you can't cap very well if you find yourself dead with a 20 second res timer all the time.

Common tactics
there are really only three viable tactics in AB: capping, defending, or mobbing. the last one only really effective if you happen to own all the shrines already and are intent on keeping your opponents inside their base.

Capping
this is the simplest tactic of the three. simple run around and capture the nearest shrine you side doesn't possess, and kill/run away from any opposition in between. don't be too particular about who's with you. if all else fails, at least they'll serve well as meatshields. if the number of people around you goes behind five, then try to split away from them and go somewhere else.

Defending
this is the most complicated tactic, and is often the most unreliable. while fairly straightforward for a coordinated group to pull off, this tactic is very difficult and chancy with a random pug. often, you'll find yourself retreating to a shrine with/without a few allies, while being outnumbered by your attackers. in this situation, just look at the formation of your attackers. if they seem uncoordinated and staggered in their movement (as in one arriving before the others), then stand and fight with the aid of your npcs. never underestimate shrine npcs, for they are often extremely deadly (especially the elementalists. they are nasty). often you can quickly eliminate the first uncoordinated attacker and leaving you with a very favourable position. if, however, your attackers are coordinated in any way, the best you can hope to do is to slow their capping. even then, it's often best to just abandon the shrine. remember golden rule #2: "never fight a losing battle".

Mobbing
this tactic is only effective when your side possesses all the shrines on the map. in this case, mob the main entrance as well as teleport pads of your opponents' base. your job is not to score kills, but to ensure that none of them gets out. usually if your side assumes this position outside of your opponents' base, the game has already been won. however, always keep an eye out for the shrine number. if you find that someone is slowly capping your shrines behind the mob, then go after them. you'll have the advantage of shrines on your side, so winning those skirmishes won't be too hard.

Conclusion
hopefully you find part II of my guide more informative and coherent than part I. always remember the four golden rules and use them in your advantage.

part I can be found here: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10191222

Lorinda · Sep 10, 2007, 08:04 AM // 08:04

You seem to like AB as a solo sport.
Go with a decent team onces and you dont want any thing else any more.
In my guild's teams rule number 1 doesnt count at all. We will depend on each other. Basically because most of the time the team has 1 or 2 healers/supporters. Any monk build or healing build will work then.
We rush from shrine to shrine killing most of the things that encounter us.

I like ot know if you play kurzick side or Luxon side?
It seems to make a big differents on what side you play.
Personally i like the luxon side better. There are at least players that do AB for a reason other then just having fun (That is 1 very good reason BTW having FUN)

Yet again like in post 1, i would like to see what your opinion is about the average build in AB. I know its mostly meatshields, like you call them. But some do have a build. (other then touchers and E/D's)

Ill meet you in the field

moriz · Sep 10, 2007, 03:15 PM // 15:15

i've played with organized groups. it bored me out of my mind. like i said in my other thread, if i want to farm, i'll farm pve. at least it gives me loot.

i've also played on both sides. they are exactly the same, no differences whatsoever.

josarian · Sep 16, 2007, 07:26 AM // 07:26

Well i prefer Guild/Alliance Teams...with 4 good players your chances for a win are with 20-30% higher,and for me its more fun because playing in PuGs can be frustrating and thats i dont wanna happen...aftherall you play for fun and its more fun talking with frends in TS and making the game for your side.

moriz · Sep 22, 2007, 07:56 PM // 19:56

i took your advice and joined one of the top AB guilds (owns zos shivros currently). i hate to say it, but these guys SUCK. playing with them is generally more frustrating than with a pug, since these guys need me to micromanage them every single step of the way, or they'll run around like headless chickens.

if these guys are representative of the rest of the AB guild population, i'm not sure if i really want to join any of them.

Steboy93 · Sep 22, 2007, 08:30 PM // 20:30

I really like this guide, it seems like I already to most of the stuff on the list, and i certainly agree with #1 & 2. My guild rarely AB's, so i nearly always go with PUG's, and it's so uncoordinated i find myself going round as a loner, clearing shrines by myself and only really dying when i get jumped by like 3 assa's.

Winstar · Sep 22, 2007, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Yeah, my guess is that guilds that call themselves top AB guilds and pride themselves on owning places like Zho Shivros Channel and such are pretty much the dirty bottom of the pvp barrel. I've done both randoms and guild groups - groups made of reasonably competent GvGers or HAers - and guilds have always been better.

The choice is basically between what amounts to an RA group but likely worse trying to stick together on a larger map with greater movment VS people who u trust playing together on Vent. Not much of a choice. AB is easy in this case. Bring a good 4 person team, stay together, cap shit, avoid wasting time fighting useless confrontations, win.

Chances are most teams loading in are going to be randoms, and this just leads to general disorder. An organized guild team (friends list whatever) is just going to take advantage of this crap all day.

Riotgear · Sep 23, 2007, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

i took your advice and joined one of the top AB guilds (owns zos shivros currently). i hate to say it, but these guys SUCK.

The town-owning guilds tend to suck, because all they do is recruit anyone that breathes as long as they get 10,000 faction per day. They don't need good players, because you don't need to be good to get 10,000 faction per day, you just need to hit Enter Battle a lot.

If you want a decent AB team, get 3 other people you actually know.

Timeless Logic · Oct 01, 2007, 04:04 PM // 16:04

I posted this in the "Any Fundamental Difference In Play?" thread, but it bears copying here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timeless Logic

Time of day is definitely a factor, but having played extensively on each side I believe there are several ingredients for a successful AB. I paste this message, or something similar, into the opening of every AB, regardless of the map or my win-loss ratio that run:

"Capping helps more than kills. If the Luxons/Kurzicks zerg a control point, move on and take another. Zerging, while helpful in offense, hurts on defense, so run a cap circuit and we'll do fine."

Whether or not you agree with that strategy, having a solid tactical formula is critical in AB. I used to only paste that message when I felt like typing it out and formatting it to fit, but I find my win-loss ratio to be considerably better when I use it and folks listen. Think about it from a role-playing perspective. The Luxons and Kurzicks are battling to gain control of territory, not to raise the other faction's body count. If you want to slaughter the enemy, go run a trap group in Zaishen Elite. In AB, coordination and execution ride shotgun.

I also notice a major difference in my success rate when one or both sides insist on taunting the other. If I land in a flame war, I'm gone, dishonor be damned.

This may sound silly, but name recognition helps a lot. I use the same name for all my AB characters (Fetch Me A Muffin) and people begin to recognize me, even if they frequently change names. Teams built of veterans, regulars or even reasonably knowledgeable players are more likely to succeed, and success earns respect, a key component of effective leadership.

Lastly, don't pick the first party search entries you stumble across. Many players spam invitations and enter because they can't predict the makeup of the other groups. It's important to build a successful team, even if your group is the only efficient of the three. This helps you function as a unit and enables party members to split off and help others when necessary. If at all possible, I form a group with 3 of my real life friends, and if they aren't on I group with players whom I trust in PvP or who convince me of their qualifications.

Regardless of faction, the team that combines all of these elements, or at least more than their opponents, will more than likely emerge victorious. AB is considered by many a more casual form of PvP, but in Guild Wars even casual PvP requires more input than most games. I hope this helped.

Timeless

Taurucis · Oct 09, 2007, 12:23 AM // 00:23

If I may...

My hand-made guide on Alliance Battles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoIYg6jXhDg

moriz · Oct 10, 2007, 03:42 AM // 03:42

that's a pretty nifty video. nicely done.

it's a pretty good primer for someone to learn the basics of AB. which, strangely enough, seems to be beyond the comprehension of most AB players.

Amadei · Oct 11, 2007, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

that's a pretty nifty video. nicely done.

it's a pretty good primer for someone to learn the basics of AB. which, strangely enough, seems to be beyond the comprehension of most AB players.

Yeah, I liked the vid too. For fun, try typing "guild wars alliance battle" into Youtube's search engine. You can be amazed and possibly somewhat worried at the amount of people who don't even bother to bring an elite.

Div · Oct 11, 2007, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Nice video. Just needs to dshot less randomly and it'll be a good guide on how to ranger too :P

Gnat Attack · Oct 14, 2007, 09:38 AM // 09:38

whoa dude, please /hittheheadonnail more

props

Aramaki [LUX] · Oct 19, 2007, 04:14 AM // 04:14

wow, a kurzick who knows what abing is... good video Taurucis

ALWAYS work as a team. Going solo is what the headless chickens are doing. If u lead them... u fight for a common goal. Have u noticed that the max pips for capping a shrine is 4... and have u noticed that u are paired in groups of 4? Cooincidence? I think not

As to being in the 'top' AB guilds... that means s#!% all. Just means they faction farm like crazy (i know there are good players in those alliances... i mean no offence). Quantity over quality is what people use to gain faction for their guilds. I've been in a lot of those alliances in the past and couldn't stand the people. My guild is a small group of hardcore (yes, i mean hardcore) ABers. When i play with any other groups... i give my odds about 1/4 chance of winning. With my guildies 3/4... if we sync... damn near perfect.

It's not about being a good fighter. Mobbing is meant for fighting... AB is about taking shrines... since max pip is 4, having 12 people won't make u cap faster... and taking down npcs is effortless. It really is more of a race than any other form of pvp.

I'm hoping this wasn't too much rambling... but, we've all moved on from AB cause there's no challenge, it's become too easy.

Hopefully this thread will bring out some more skilled ABers and maybe you'll see the [LUX] tag in ABs more often, again.

Riotgear · Oct 19, 2007, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Yes, mobbing is about fighting efficiently, but as I've mentioned before, a large part of playing AB is exploiting the stupidity of the other players. Half of the players in AB if not more refuse to retreat from a losing battle and refuse to give up a kill. 12 may not cap faster than 4, but it doesn't matter when their team fragments and stands in front of the mob like a deer in the headlights. Then you wind up with games where 2/3 of their team is getting farmed the whole time while the mobbing team, although inefficiently, continues to cap.

Aramaki [LUX] · Oct 19, 2007, 08:09 AM // 08:09

it's the safe and slow way. The way we play, we avoid fights unless it's gonna be an easy encounter. That way we can run from shrine to shrine capping nice and fast. Eventually, if we're capping fast enough and we see where the mob is headed, we can all mob at this point because the shrines are all capped, so now we just prevent the opposite side from regaining any shrines... and since ur all mobbed up, we don't have to worry so much about some team capping the back. Of course, at this point it's down to fighting prowess, tho assuming both sides have equal skills in fighting each other, the side that has the shrines has the advantage of the NPCs. Both methods, mobbing or capping have advantages, but this is efficient and can end an alliance battle in a fraction of the time as mob fighting. It's a little different when it comes to Kaanai and Ancestral since a definite advantage in familiar territory gives one side an advantage, capping fast (and having a solid game plan

) often can still win over fighting as a mob... but, requires all teams to be a little coordinated.

Coifmeister · Nov 04, 2007, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

The town-owning guilds tend to suck, because all they do is recruit anyone that breathes as long as they get 10,000 faction per day. They don't need good players, because you don't need to be good to get 10,000 faction per day, you just need to hit Enter Battle a lot.

If you want a decent AB team, get 3 other people you actually know.

True statement. All I do pretty much is AB so When iI saw a certain HzH owning guild recruiting I joined immediatley. Expecting expert abbers and even to be taught a thing or two. Turns all everyone was doing was FFF all day. I't was actually hard to get an AB team on GC with 98 members. And even when you did they wen't much better than PUGS.

Riotgear's right. Meet people in AB add then to your friend list and give them a shout every time you're on. Tis the way forward. They're the people you can rely on.

Edwin Phate · Nov 06, 2007, 07:46 AM // 07:46

I find ABing with certain guild members is at least 60% more effective. Because we coordinate and use vent

that could be why. I agree that most Abers blow in comparison to other pvp.

From my experience the Top Ab guilds dont organize because they got numbers and play like this topic advises. I think its stupid though you got guild mates vent and skills....use them. Put them together you'll find its like 10x more fun rolling Pug groups.

Lorinda · Nov 06, 2007, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwin Phate

I find ABing with certain guild members is at least 60% more effective. Because we coordinate and use vent

that could be why. I agree that most Abers blow in comparison to other pvp.

From my experience the Top Ab guilds dont organize because they got numbers and play like this topic advises. I think its stupid though you got guild mates vent and skills....use them. Put them together you'll find its like 10x more fun rolling Pug groups.

You sire/madam are so right.
Having your friends on vent and doing ab is lots of fun.

And most big guild members suck in AB. Just because they most farm for their points. It seems they dont know you can hold 1 mil faction with just 20 people donating 2 times a day. Seeing this topic and the movies the OP made, its for those people that cant play in a team. Also known as solo abers.

I agree with you, rolling kurzicks/luxons with your friends on vent is a lot more fun.